The Philosophy of Space and time by micromike

micromike.com

The miracle of the stick and the rock

...dedicated to the philosophical analysis of scientific thought!

 Graduate School Application Menu  Contents  Philosophy Papers   Cosmology  Letters Menu  Personal Information Menu  Martian Chronicle   MarsLife  MarsMeteorite  MarsRock  LogSpaceShip  GravionCentral  Micromike's Sites Overview  Common Links  Home  Aaron's Memorial Pages   

A Short Aside On Evolution in General

which now appears to have gotten longer!

 

 

A Short Aside On Evolution in General

After reading the many discussions on evolution, it is apparent to me that most people are confusing the principles of evolution with the mechanisms of evolution. Almost everyone I know believes in the principles of evolution, even though many won't admit it.

The principles of evolution are thus:

Every organism caries information about itself in its genetic material

Every offspring contains the mixing of genetic material from its parents

Any offspring that does not survive to mating, will not pass on its genetic material

To make this matter very personal, if you and your mate have a child and that child dies before having children, your genes will not be passed on. This is just common sense and needs little argument. If one believes in DNA and genetic material, then you logically believe in the principles of evolution. Even the most ardent fundamental Christians seem to believe that their children look like themselves and they expect their children to pass on genetic material to the next generation. This concept represents the principles of evolution.

The mechanisms of evolution are what lead scientist to disagree. What concerns scientists are the details of how God or nature changes organisms through time. Does evolution go in small steps or large steps? What outside forces affect evolution? Darwin suggested natural selection as the mechanism. Others could say that the selection is God based. But in the end, it comes down to some individuals and species living and some individuals and species dying, because of their interaction with an ever changing environment. It seems funny to me that so many fundamental Christians are very interested in natural foods, but not in natural selection. Isn't nature a part of God?

One argument against evolution asks why evolution isn't continuing today. Well it is. Every leaf and every tree and every animal shows its evolutionary path, if one just looks. Every year new viruses evolve to give us a new version of the flu or common cold. Every dog alive today is the result of man's unnatural selection of those qualities he wants to see in his dog and every dog is evolved from the wolf.

The problem comes with evolution because some religions preach that one must take the Bible in a literal fashion or one is not a true believer. Yet Jesus spoke in parables and it escapes me why those same people can believe that Jesus talked in stories, but Genesis isn't a story. The Bible is a book of religion, not history. Many Christians seem to worship the Bible instead of worshiping the love that Jesus preached. I don't recall Jesus ever talking about evolution. After all, all time spent discussing evolution is time that we can't be helping someone else and sharing the love that Jesus taught us, which should be the goal of any religion.

A Comparison of Martian and Terrestrial Evolution

For the moment, let's assume that the debris found within the Frass Meteorite is from Mars. I know this is a big assumption, at this time, yet I think the evidence is strong enough to begin trying to understand what it means. So one of the most interesting questions to me, is how does life differ as it evolves on two different planets? What things are similar and what things are different? What energy sources can life make use of? Is life based on carbon everywhere? Is DNA used by life on other planets? Was life moved from Mars to Earth by earlier meteorite transports? Has the evolution of life on Earth been affected by the transport of Martian material? Or have the two evolutionary mechanisms evolved so differently, that they don't interact easily?

One of the first things to consider, is where does the life get it initial energy. On Earth, this energy basically comes from the sun. The sun shines energy on the planet, and many organisms have developed to directly convert this energy into chemical energy for its own use. We generally call these plants. Then larger organisms eat these and larger organisms eat these and so on. Until recently, science thought that maybe all energy came from the sun. But lately, we have found whole new organisms that get their energy from chemical energy near underwater volcanic vents and some organisms deep within the Earth that have no apparent energy source, other than the rocks around them. So one of the first things to consider when evaluating the evolution of life on Mars, is where did this life get most of its energy?

After seeing our sun as viewed from Mars, I tend to think that the life on Mars was much the reverse of life on Earth. Most of Mars's life's energies came from chemical energies from the volcanic systems, with a smaller percentage coming from sunlight. There just isn't near as much sunlight energy falling on the surface of Mars as falls on the Earth. "Leaves" on Mars would have to be "humungous." I think most of the energy for life on Mars came from the chemical energies of volcanoes, since it appears to me, that the life of Mars evolved around these volcanoes for most of the history of Mars. There is nothing about the Frass Meteorite that suggests any of these conclusions are true, as these are only philosophical observations. But it could very well explain why the Viking life experiments proved so hard to interpret. So I am assuming that the base of the food chain on Mars were bacteria or bacteria-like life forms that clustered around volcanic vents and obtained their energy from these vents. After the base level of the number of these organisms becomes high enough, then these organisms provide food for more complex and larger creatures to evolve.

On Earth, we divide the life of our planet into several categories. At first, we just had plants and animals and then we discovered a whole class of tiny things that don't fall into any category with much consistency. So how do the classifications of Earth hold up when we examine the debris from the Frass Meteorite? Surprisingly, the categories hold up better than one might expect.

I have no way of seeing bacteria or other very small life forms, so my observations are based on the things that I can see. Since we do see macroscopic debris within the Frass Meteorite, we must assume that there was some food base that supported these "large" creatures. It does appear that life on Mars did evolve to both plants and animals. There are clearly pieces of debris that look like the "stalk" of plants, or something that was attached to the surface in some way. These are round and long and seem to be "wood-like" in their nature. Here are several pictures of these types of objects.

 

 

            debrisfield01.jpg (3912 bytes)  debrisfield02.jpg (4660 bytes)  debrisfield03.jpg (3109 bytes) 

 

In the animal world of our planet, there are two major divergent directions when it comes to the symmetry of the animal. Many primitive animals on Earth have radial symmetry. This means they "radiate" out around a central point. As life became more complex, it developed bilateral symmetry, which is what humans have: two sides that are mirror images of each other. Again, we see both types of creatures, although the specimen that I have for radial symmetry, may yet be a plant type creature. However, it looks very much like many primitive Earth animals. Here are the pictures.

 

 

worm15.jpg (49765 bytes) spidy.gif (10468 bytes) worm1.jpg (47616 bytes)

                                                       

 

 

On Earth, we have "soft" creatures that have developed in the water, and we have "hard" creatures that have made a shell and then left the water to live on land. It seems the process of making a shell to hold one's water "inside" is a good practice around the cosmos, since it looks like the creatures of Mars have also learned to make shells to protect themselves. What are these shells made of? Is it the same chemistry as Earth? It looks to me like the creatures of Mars have made more use of silicon than many Earth creatures, but this still remains to be seen.

Soft creatures don't tend to be preserved as easily as something with a shell, so on Earth, finding old "soft" things is much harder than finding old "hard" things. The same is probably true on Mars, although the conditions on Mars at the present time should be very good for preserving the remains of things that once lived there. So I have found no "soft" creatures in the debris, unless you count the glassies that I believe are a Martian glass fungus, which are still living within the Meteorite to this day.

As far as "hard" creatures that are in the animal category, I have found worms, bugs, and spiders. Does this seem reasonable? I think it does. The insects are the most successful species on our planet and it looks like they have done the same on Mars. The only disadvantage to being an insect, is the size of an exoskeleton that the creature can develop. As long as the creatures stay small, and the lack of a global water supply for most of the planet's history would tend to push creatures to stay small, then they have little evolutionary gain in "learning" to be "large" animals "out of the water." So it seems to me, the planet history of Mars would favor "insect" like creatures. All of the creatures found so far have been very tiny and even the bacteria like formations within ALH-84001 seem to be much smaller than similar Earthly organisms. This seems reasonable, since Mars has just never had the energy that Earth has enjoyed and thus "things" probably never got very big on Mars. Mars was probably a planet of miniatures. Tiny little battles among tiny little creatures on an isolated world of isolated volcanoes, is a good description of the evolution of life on Mars.

Another question is the question of the use of carbon as the main mechanism of life. On Earth, all life is carbon based that we know of. It has been proposed that life might evolve around silicon as an alternative. Since there seems to be a lot of silicon hanging around Mars, did the Martian creatures evolve around silicon as the base or did they use carbon, as terrestrial creatures do? The answer, apparently, is that the Martian creatures also use carbon, just as we do. On two of the sand samples, SAND2 and SAND3, I included representative samples of the living thing's debris in the samples. I had these tested for organic and inorganic carbon. The tests came back showing that organic carbon was present. Therefore, I am assuming, at this point, that the creatures of Mars also used carbon as the basic element, and maybe even all life in the cosmos uses carbon as the basic element.

The next question is the question of DNA. DNA, or RNA in some organisms on Earth, provides the "code" that stores the information about how the organism is to develop. Clearly, for any life to become organized, it must have something that at least plays the same role as DNA or RNA. The question is, "do Martian creatures use DNA or something else?" Since I am assuming that Martian creatures use carbon, I think this fact makes it more likely that the Martian creatures also use DNA as the primary method of passing on information to successive generations. I have no way of testing for DNA yet, but it sure would be interesting to see if these creatures do have and use DNA.

On Earth, when populations are separated from each other, they tend to evolve differently, because they are faced with different situations. On Mars, it looks like there may have been some common early evolution, in the form of the early ocean(s). But early in the planet's history, it must have lost the oceans and life was confined to the calderas and pools of the large ancient volcanoes. I suspect these calderas were filled with water and had many volcanic vents "leaking" into them. This would have provided the energy and water necessary for life to evolve over the eons of time. Since large distances separated these volcanoes and the creatures were probably very small, it is entirely possible that Mars acted much like a giant laboratory for life to develop differently at each volcano. If there was little or no interaction between the different volcanoes, the life of each volcano could have become separated from the rest of the planet, and so each volcano might be like a different planet, in some ways. On the other hand, there may be vast underground streams and passageways that allowed life to "move" from system to system. The only way we will ever know is to go there and find out.

Your friend,

signature.gif (1197 bytes)

 

A Long Asisde on Evolution

 

The following pages represents a conversation about evolution.  By e-mail, I have given short answers to each of his questions already.  But I think his questions are very valid and represent the best organization of thoughts of any person I have encountered that is willing to logically argue the "truth" of evolution.  He is respectful and is willing to listen.  Therefore, I would like to expand our conversation, by posting it here at this page on evolution.  That way, anyone that visits, can see both sides of the issue and decide for themselves what they think is real and correct.  Philosophy is not about the prospect of trying to make others think like you, but rather to help people to think for themselves and make up their own mind.  So as I get the time, I will continue to work on my answers to his questions.  If you would like to be notified when new sections are written or updated, then send me an e-mail and request to be put on my e-mail list.  Some of his questions are about other subjects, but in the end, they all apply, so I am going to leave them all at this page and answer them in general and specifically towards evolution.  As usual, my words are in blue (my favorite color) and his words are in red, so that you can determine easily "who" is speaking.

 

I happened to visit your website and found an interesting argument which you
provided "proving" that the cosmos is infinite...  If I may, I would like to
make a brief comment or two.


You began by providing the reader two choices:

"There are two choices: The cosmos is infinite or it is finite.

If I can prove that it can't be finite, then logically it must be infinite."

I agree so far.  The law of the excluded middle is sovereign here...  but,
in concluding the argument, you merely offer that, "Since we can't prove a
boundary, we can never prove the cosmos is finite.  Thus, the cosmos is
infinite."

By the end of your argument, you have forgotten its very purpose.  Even were
I to agree with you (but I do not) that we cannot prove that the universe is
finite, this does not demonstrate that it is, in fact, infinite.  Your
conclusion ends up as a logical fallacy known as "Appeal to Ignorance."  You
have attempted to demonstrate that, because it is impossible to prove the
universe to be finite, such a belief must be false.  But, although you claim
that something concrete  has been demonstrated, no necessary conclusion is
provided.

In effect, you have simply shown that we do not know, not that we can now
safely choose one option over the other.

As you stated earlier, you must "prove that it can't be finite."  You have
yet to do this and, until you do, you have proven nothing.

I only point this out to you so that you can, if you like, change the
argument or delete it altogether from your page.

At any rate, I would like to thank you for the time and effort that you have
given in reading (and, perhaps, responding to) this letter.

I think all of your points are valid, although I disagree at certain places.  I have spent a lot of time thinking about philosophical and logical arguments that would prove or disprove the "finiteness" of the cosmos.  I have not been able to come up with arguments on either side of the issue that I find perfectly acceptable.  That is the reason that I have placed my statement on the Internet.  My hope is that someone will have better ideas than me, and share them with me.  It is my desire to engage all those that would listen in a conversation about the cosmos and whether it is finite or infinite.  I think most cosmologist and astronomers are confused about the issue and apparently don't think about it much.  It seems to me, that any model of cosmology that says there was only a single big bang, and it happened a finite time ago, and it expanded at some finite (even variable) rate, and has an edge, by all accounts, must be describing a finite cosmos.

When I was very little, my mother told me that the stars went on forever.  Being raised a Christian, I believed her, because I believed in an infinite God with an infinite creation.  So when I read stories of creation that indicate a finite cosmos, where the stars don't go on forever, and where God Himself, must not be infinite, then I don't think that model can possibly be correct. The thought that God's creation is not infinite, would reduce the size of God, to me.  Many people have told me that they have trouble imagining an infinite cosmos.  I tell them that I have trouble imagining a single universe that has an edge.  I must always ask them, what is beyond the edge.  How can they say nothing?  It is much easier for me to imagine that there are just more stars, no matter how far one might look, in any direction. 

There are two models of creation that bother me, and both for the same reason.  One is the single big bang model that is currently accepted by science.   This model states that everything there ever was, came from a single gigantic explosion they call a big bang.  There was nothing before the event and then, all of a sudden, there was everything.  The second model that I find distasteful, is the Fundamental Christian view called Creationism, which again states that everything there ever was, came from nothing only 6,000 years ago.  There was nothing before the event and then, all of a sudden, there was everything.  Both models rely on faith, which is fine for a model of religion, but crazy for a model of science.  I can't accept either as possible because they both imply a finite cosmos.  If there is a common beginning to "everything," then the cosmos must be finite.  To be infinite, it must be infinite in every direction, including backwards through time.  If there is any limit, then the cosmos is finite. 

As a philosopher who has studied logic my entire life, I realize that I can place my thoughts into different categories. I realize that at the beginning of every logical process, is a set of assumptions, from which the logic must flow.  I define assumptions as those things accepted by faith.  The logical flow from any set of assumptions is directly tied to the assumptions.  The rightness or wrongness of the logic is dependant on the assumptions.  One can have perfect logic, but if your assumptions are bad, then any conclusions drawn from the logical flow, must be considered suspect, in the least.  So I can make the decision, to accept an infinite cosmos, as an assumption of mine.  Or I can argue for it logically, based on what I perceive to be even more primitive assumptions.  So I have chosen to try to find arguments that would support my contention that the cosmos must be infinite.

If you look within my paper "The Philosophy of Space and Time," you will see that I have laid out my assumptions and the principles that I am willing to argue logically. The assumptions that I have made are three: there is a reality, we can know the reality, and reality is the same throughout the cosmos.  I have also laid out three principles that I think "guide" the cosmos.  These I am willing to argue, although I just accept my assumptions.  The three principles are thus:  the minimum condition for existence within any universe is identity and relationship, any coordinate system must establish itself faster than the fastest thing which moves within that coordinate system, and that the cosmos is infinite.   Concerning the first principle, I have had many people in science, from every area, agree with me in my statement.  All of my philosophy stems from this basic principle and I am willing to argue it's validity with anyone any time.  The second principle is also very basic and I think intuitive for anyone that will spend some time thinking about it.  The final principle is the one in question in this argument.  In defense of this principle, I have made a single statement that I think is true of nature.   All things cycle.  I think, in the end, it is the same statement to say that all physical systems cycle and the cosmos is infinite.

As I look around me, I see where everything cycles.  Our lives begin and end, nations come and go, species spring forth and then are gone. The Earth itself is half way through it's lifetime.  Our galaxy is 90% of the way through its lifetime, and everywhere I see the birth and death of different physical systems.   This led me to look for a larger cycle in the cosmos, a cycle the size of a universe.   When I first heard about big bangs and black holes, I said to my teacher, "and then black holes get so large that they eventually turn into a big bang, don't they?"  He looked at me very strange and then said "No, that's not the way we teach it."  I thought that funny since I saw cycles everywhere else and so there must be one at this large scale.  I think the evidence is now overwhelming that I am correct.  Current science thinks the whole cosmos is only 13 billion years old.  We have stars in the Milky Way that are 20 billion years old.   The Milky Way must be 100's of billions of years old.  Large molecules in our own body, would have to have been formed by passage through multiple star systems, each taking 10 to 20 billion years.  Everywhere we look in the cosmos, we see "holes" where big bangs have occurred.  When we look as far as the Hubble Space Telescope can see, we only find more galaxies, some of which must have been very old, billions of years ago when the light left the galaxy.  And finally, the unification equation E=gmc2 requires that there be limits on all physical systems and clearly shows that there are physical limits on how much material can be involved with any black hole or big bang.  All of these are intuitive arguments that the cosmos is infinite.

Now back to my argument above.  If I can prove that the cosmos is not, or can not be finite, then the only other choice is infinite.  The argument that I used above relies on a philosophical concept called the cone of knowledge.  Since the only way we can "know" the reality around us, is by the passage of energy through the system, and since that energy apparently can not move faster than the speed of light, then there would exist around any viewpoint, a cone of what things are knowable from that viewpoint.  Only those events, that light has had time to reach the viewpoint, can be know by that observer.  The gravionic model shows that we can know things at the speed of gravity which is much faster than the speed of light, but the argument remains the same, only the size of the cone grows.  There is a physical limit on what we can know.  Anything outside this cone of knowledge is called the ultimately unknowable. 

Now philosophically, there are two situations.  Outside this cone of knowledge there is either more "stuff" or there is not more "stuff."  But, if I can prove that inside the cone of knowledge, we can see the cycles that I have proposed, then that would be more evidence that the cycles continue past what we can see.  I think I can prove that these cycles are evident in the cosmos we see through our telescope, but in the end, I must agree with you that nothing I have said "proves" the cosmos is infinite.  But I think the task is even larger to prove that the cosmos is not infinite.  So again, that is why I post my arguments, because I want to know what others think and I want to look for the best ideas, no matter who thinks them first.  Although you say that I can't prove the cosmos is infinite, you have given no arguments to prove that the cosmos is finite. 

In the end, I believe the cosmos is infinite, that God made a very simple set of rules that can express themselves in an infinite number of ways, that life is the purpose of the cosmos, and evolution, through the use of DNA, is the method that God uses to make new life on each world in an infinite Cosmos.  I believe that in an infinite cosmos, there is no need to have the "first" arising of life, since in an infinite cosmos, life was always somewhere, and it merely needs to travel to each new world to start the process of natural selection, where organisms, through the hardships of the world, learn to live under the conditions that God has placed on that world.  In an infinite cosmos, physical systems are moving in every direction, so it is only a matter of time before each new world encounters the "old" life of other more ancient solar systems.  We now know that organisms the size and complexity of bacteria can live and travel through space without harm.  Since the asteroids and comets represent the blown apart remnants of old suns and planets, one would expect that life would reside in some of these, particularly comets, which are probably the ancient oceans of planets that have come and gone.  Their death, many billions of years ago, has led to the life we now see on Earth.  We are part of these endless and ancient cycles.

 

 

Dear Micromike...

I apologize for having taken so very long to respond.  It would probably have been more polite to let you know that I received your reply and enjoyed it immensely.  I will probably not address your specific comments concerning the possible infinite properties of the cosmos (I am not even sure that you would be interested) for I only have a little time, but I have once again visited your website and would like to make a brief comment or two concerning the contents of your paper on evolution.

I have enjoyed your website so far and I am grateful that you are interested in taking the time to discuss your ideas with those who perhaps, do not agree.  If I may, I would like to discuss a few of the arguments that you provided in support of "evolution" and I hope that this exchange will prove helpful to you...

At the very beginning, you appear to try to solve the problem between evolutionists and anti-evolutionists by reducing "evolution" to a few fundamental principles:

"Almost everyone I know believes in the principles of evolution, even thought many won't admit it.

The principles of evolution are thus:

Every organism carries information about itself in its genetic material.

Every offspring contains the mixing of genetic material from its parents.

Any offspring that does not survive to mating, will not pass on its genetic material."

With each of these, I agree, although I cannot agree with the truth of the notion of evolution.  The process of "evolution" does not exist.  Now, there is something missing here.  I agree with the "principles" of evolution that you have outlined, but I do not agree with the reality of "evolution."

It seems that, in the attempt to defend the theory, you have made a fundamental error.  Further on, you granted that evolutionists are not so much concerned with what you have termed the "principles" of evolution but more so with the "mechanism" of evolution.  But you fail to make any clear distinction between microevolution and macroevolution and, in the process, attempt to render support for macroevolution by pointing to the obvious truth of microevolution.

In denying the "mechanism," you have, to a certain degree, denied macroevolution itself.  Allow me to explain.  I am sure that you are familiar with the differences between micro and macro-evolution.  One of the larger problems that has arisen in the exchange between evolutionists and creationists is an ambiguous use of terminology.  The term "evolution" is used to refer to both macro and micro versions.  When you listed the "principles" of evolution, you did not mention that you were speaking only of "micro"-evolution.  Instead, you gave the impression, regardless of intent, that "macro"-evolution is also as supported by such obviously clear-cut "principles."

Again, I agree with you.  Who would deny the "principles" that you set forth?  They are clearly supported by a common experience.  What is not supported by those "principles" is macro-evolution, which is really the only thing that is being debated.  No one debates the truth of microevolution.

Now, when you say that the "mechanism" of evolution is being debated, you then switch over to speaking of the "macro" version of evolution.  This is obvious when you state that, "What concerns scientists are the details of how God or nature changes organisms through time."  This is much more important for that is, roughly, what macroevolution is: change through time (long periods of time).  Again, "micro-evolution" is true.  Its truth is not even in question.  The much larger step must be taken to vindicate macroevolution, a step which is not justified by the evidence.  Thus, although the truth of "evolution" and its principles (micro) are not discussed by evolutionists, the "mechanism" (macro) is.

We both know that the mechanism for microevolution is obvious.  Natural selection, sexual recombination, etc., fill the role nicely.  What is not known is what might possibly carry out the much more difficult process of "macro"-evolution.  And, in that, I believe the argument falls.

You see, evolutionists have no knowledge of the cause of macro and, because they don't even know the mechanism involved, they cannot know its specific effects.  This is evidenced by the common guesswork involved in reconstructing the historical process (did the swim bladder come first or the lung?  Maybe the lung was once a pouch on the gut that became unattached later?  The eye?  Who knows what its earlier function was...--all these "explanations" were given by Richard Dawkins) and in building that "tree" of evolution that all school children have come to know but that seems terribly incomplete.

In effect, the evolutionist seems to be without knowledge of the cause or much of that unknown cause's effects...  What kind of theory are we discussing here?  I believe that we go round and round discussing the truth of "evolution" and its principles (micro, of course) while the men work feverishly in the lab to discover some evidence for macroevolution.

This is exactly what you did...  Taking another example from your paper, you discuss the question of why "evolution" (again unspecified) is not still in full force today.  You fail to address the fact that the question is always concerning macroevolution, not microevolution.  Why do we not see a continuation of macroevolution today?  In charging forward to answer the challenge, you provide evidence for microevolution, surprised that such a question even need be asked.  You provide examples such as the "evolution" of new strains of old viruses, the myriad of dogs which are the result of the efforts of dog breeders and the opinion that the "dog is evolved from the wolf."

None of these constitutes evidence for macroevolution, merely micro...  It may surprise you but creationists would agree with you when you say that new strains of old viruses appear every year and that dog breeders have done a wonderful job in exploring the very boundaries of possible combinations in the thousand years or so that they have been exploring this lineage and that the dog IS a descendent of the wolf (or vice versa).

Creationists agree with all of this, but, nonetheless, they remain creationists.  The reason is that you have not supported macroevolution at all and that is what the debate is all about.

At any rate, I am sure that you had no intention to be pulled into a debate concerning macro-evolution.  My only concern was your attempt to utilize the truth of microevolution to support macroevolution on your website.  If you agree with my arguments or, at the very least, if you cannot answer them, I ask (out of concern for one's responsibility, as a professional, to the truth) that you take these arguments off of your site.  They may possibly persuade a poor soul who isn't very well-versed in the subtleties of the debate and who might be influenced by arguments which are subtly deceptive (unwittingly so, I am sure).

As I said, I do not believe that the infraction was intentional.  That is not my point.  And, in that case, surely you will be interested in serving the truth and removing this from your site or, perhaps, rewriting and resubmitting it.

I thank you for all your time and efforts in reading and, perhaps, responding to this...  I hope you are doing well.  You have my warmest regards, sir...

In my first letter to this gentleman, I informed him that I would not remove my paper from the internet.  There are many papers that I have written, that have portions that I no longer think are true.  But philosophy is about a search for every viewpoint, so I leave even the papers that I know have mistakes in them, just for the purpose we find here.  The reason I leave so many errors, is to stimulate conversations just as this one.  I don't believe I was wrong in this paper, although I admit that my arguments are not strong.  So I informed this gentleman, that I would not remove the paper, but, I would post his views next to mind, so that all can make up their own minds about this and other important issues.

The problem in the argument between creationism and macro evolution, as it has been called, is that every creationist that I have talked to have a different view of what creationism means.  I have friends who believe that everything that ever existed was instantly brought into existence 6,000 years ago.  Others believe that only the Earth was created 6,000 years ago, but the rest of the cosmos can be as old as it wants.  Some believe that life can evolve on Mars, but just don't like the idea that human life evolved on Earth.  The main argument seems to revolve around a belief in God.  Many fundamental Christians don't accept anyone that doesn't believe as they do.  They think to believe in God, one must believe in his magical powers 6,000 years ago to have created everything from nothing.  I wonder what God did before He created everything!  In an infinite cosmos, He was always busy.  The main point though, is that many other Christians believe that God created us through the process of evolution.  Because one doesn't believe in Creationism doesn't mean that one doesn't believe in God.  If we examine the total religions of the world, we find only a small part (fundamental Christians) that don't believe in evolution, as  a method by which God can work.

You say there is no evidence for macro evolution, but I say you are wrong.   There is plenty of evidence.  What most people are saying when they make this argument, is that they haven't studied enough to see the evidence.  Every leaf of every tree tells of its history and all the processes that have brought it to the place it is today.  All of this is recorded in the DNA of each living creature. I have studied every aspect of science and have looked at the life that I see around me.  Each living system is clearly and completely tied to it DNA.

If you want to really see the evidence for the process of evolution, look at embryology.  I have had a number of people tell me that they don't believe that an organism as complex as a human being could possibly evolve from a single cell.  So I tell them, look in the mirror and you will see an organism that evolved from a single cell.  You were once just a single cell, then it divided and became a little more complex creature.  After a few divisions, we see the evidence of bilateral symmetry emerging, which clearly separates us from many of the creatures of this world.  But at this point in the evolution of any particular creature, we can't tell what creature it will become.  They all look basically alike at this stage and it is only the DNA that tells the writes the final story of what this creature is to become.

At a later stage, even human beings have gill slits that clearly show our relationship to those creatures that live in the sea.  As our embryo grows, it slowly makes all the parts that we call a human being.  If you want to see macro evolution in progress, then simply take a course on human embryology and you will see all the changes that brought us from a single cell to the multi cell creature we represent today.   What most people are saying when they say there is no evidence for macro evolution, is that they have not put in the effort to study all of nature and see the wonderful workings of DNA and macro evolution, because I do not accept your argument that macro evolution and micro evolution are not the same.

How much change do you have to see, to admit macro evolution.  Some of the birds of Hawaii show vast differentiation in bill design, and all in only a few million years.  The English Sparrow was introduced in Central Park in New York City in the year 1850.  Since that time, the species has differentiated into three different sub species, the very process of evolution.  I have spent a great deal of time "talking" and observing English Sparrows.  For many years I have lived in the city and become acquainted with the "city" sparrows.  Recently I spent time in the desert and got to know the desert sparrows.  I can tell you from my own personal experience, that these two creatures have developed very different personalities.  The city sparrows are very much afraid of all humans and will never come close, even after years of me feeding them.  The desert sparrows don't appear to fear human beings and will come within a few feet in only a matter of days.

When considering macro evolution, I think many people don't consider the true diversity of animals within any species.  Every member of every species "sees" things from its own viewpoint.  Even though members of a species tend to have common traits, each individual has its own viewpoint and its own interaction with its environment.  The very concept of free will in each individual assures that over time, individual will vary and will vary to fit their environment, in their efforts to survive.  Just because you or anyone else can't see every step that nature has made, doesn't mean that nature didn't make the step, only that you can't see it.  One thing I learned a long time ago, was to never let my imagination predetermine what nature can do.  Natures imagination (or God) is infinite, so I wouldn't think of trying to place limits on it.  Don't confuse your own limits with the limits of God or nature.

One thing that seems to bother all creationist, is the concept of natural selection.  I don't understand why they don't like this term.  After all, if I told them I had some natural ingredients, or natural food, or natural vitamins, they would be elated.  Why should natural selection be less?  What is the alternative?   Unnatural selection?  Natural selection merely states that those individual that survive to mating, pass on their genetic material, and can be considered as successful.  I don't know why this implies that God is not somehow good, because creatures try and fail.  We can never know the final outcome, so how can we place goodness or badness on any creature, since we don't know its place in the overall scheme of things.  Natural selection just seems, natural, to me.   

 

 

 


I have just read your principles, which were very interesting.  There are a few "definitions," however, which--I believe--may be inadequate...

For example, you defined "life" as "...those systems which use gravions to store information about reality."

I feel that I must disagree here.  Allow me to explain and, perhaps you can help me to understand your ideas more fully.  I do not understand how that "life" and the "systems" which have life, can be the same, ontologically speaking.  In other words, how do systems which "use gravions to store information," do so unless they already possess "life."

To "use" gravions and perhaps acquire and/or store information one must first be "alive." It is impossible otherwise.  I do not agree that "life" can be described as a "system."  As I said, those systems may have "life," but they are not "life" itself.

I believe you have attempted to make life a mere physical phenomena or property, which I am not so sure it is.

Second, you defined "reality" as "all mass and the associated connections of gravions and all energy which is stored within those systems."

[It is very important that I ask, in the definition of "life" given above, what do you mean by "information"?  Is information a form of energy?  Is it a physical thing?  This may be important to another point.]

Reality is, according to you, "all mass and the associated connections of gravions" and it is also "all energy which is stored within those systems."  "Those systems," I am assuming, refer to the congolomeration of mass and associated connections of gravions, to which you referred, in their distinct "relationships" (represented by gravity). 

Gravity, you assert, defines "relationships."  "Relationships" are only possible between actual things (with mass).  In that case, if "reality" is the equivalent to "all mass" and the "associated connections of gravions," (in gravitational relationships with all that mass) and "all energy stored within those systems" of mass and gravions, then your definition of "reality" excludes the possibility of anything supernatural...

Now, if you would like to exclude the "supernatural" from the outset by defining it out of the picture, please explain what "supernatural" could possibly mean?  Quite a few individuals use it and you have alluded to "God" in your paper concerning evolution.  In that case, how can you define "reality" to exclude the supernatural, yet still allude to the possibility of the reality of God?

I believe your definition begs the question.  Naturalist though you may be, you cannot define all of reality to fit your presuppositions.

Again, thank you for any time which you may have used in reading and, perhaps, responding to this letter...  I hope to hear from you soon.


Again, you have many valid arguments and I look forward to trying to answer your questions. 

Your first questions regard my definition of life.  One of the problems that I have sought to understand during my life is what is the difference between living things.   During my stay at Texas Tech, when the gravionic model first began to arise in my mind, I was working at three jobs while attending college.  One of my jobs was working at a nursing home, where I had to take care of many old people.  More than once, a patient would die while on my shift.  Many times these people would be alone at their death and that always troubled me that no one came to be with them in their last hour.  So I would be with.  I would hold their hands and let them know that someone cared, even at their last breath.  But as I stood there and watched these people die, I always wondered "What is the difference between life and death."   One moment, they are alive and then the next moment they are gone.  What happened in that moment?  Where did the energy of their human spirit go when they died?  What is the difference between the living and the non living?

As my life has progressed, I have continued to view this problem from different angles.   I studied science and it seemed we could generally tell when things were alive (although things like viruses seem a problem) but there was never a good definition to me.   Many Native Americans believe that the Earth itself is alive and I can't find fault with that view.  As we look at our world, we are finding life in places we never expected and living under conditions that we once thought were impossible.  Also, if I take some dirt, I would find that it is full of life.  If I wanted, I could make two piles from the dirt and put all of the living things in one pile and then put everything that was not living in the second pile.  As a thought experiment, let's take the pile of living things and put them in our mouth and eat them.  What has just happened?  Well, the energy of the life in the dirt has now become the energy of my spirit, as I digest the little critters.  Where is the difference between life and death?  Also, if there are enough "bad" critters in the pile, then maybe they will take my life, in order to support their own.  But now let's take the pile of dead stuff and eat it.  What has happened?  The molecules that were once apart of a dead system, are now alive in me.  Where is the difference between life and death, the living and the nonliving?  It seems to me, that in the end, there is very little difference.  If viewed from the proper perspective, the entire planet Earth can be viewed as a living system, since everything is, in the end, dependant on everything else on the planet. 

In all my work, I have tried to find the simplest rules possible to explain what I see around me.  I believe that I can show that the first systems that store information are probably just molecules.  Are they alive?  Once they begin storing information about the cosmos, then I choose to call them alive.  Again, everything I am about is to stimulate the discussion of these important issues, so that the life of the future can be better and more rewarding than the life of today.

The next topic I would like to discuss is of the supernatural.  Under the gravionic model, all real things are included.  We have come to use the term supernatural to define those events which science has been unable to explain.  If an event is real, then it is included in the gravionic model.  Supernatural events, now have a natural explanation under GMOPS.  The philosophers don't like me either, because they like to study metaphysics.  Under GMOPS, metaphysics in included.   I've just tried to make a new model of science that looks at the total energy of any real thing. 

I have seen people healed of cancer, apparently by the prayers of their loved ones.   How could this happen?  It happens, I think, because connections of gravity exits between the participants and nature (or God) and energy is physically moved and transported to the person that needs it.  Our entire being is energy.  The gravionic model just states that some of this energy is contained within the gravitational connections that make up the space of our bodies.  The energy of the human spirit would reside in the connections of gravity that make up our being.  So far from removing God from the equation, the gravionic model is the first model of physical systems that is big enough for God.  If you want, think of the g in the unification equation (E=gmc2) as standing for God.  If an event is real, under GMOPS, there must be a connection of gravity and an exchange of energy.  If your prayers are to be real, then when you pray for others, take the connections of gravity that exists between him and yourself and pass some of your energy through to him.  If you pray to God, then make a connection and receive the energy that you need.  The gravionic model is not designed to eliminate religion, but only to provide a method of determining if your religion is real.  In the end, being spiritual is what it is all about.   Religions propose a method of obtaining spirituality, GMOPS lets them see if they are succeeding.  Also, I don't think a religion is necessary to be spiritual.  I was raised as a Christian and I truly believe that the message of Christ was to love each other.  I have tried to help human beings understand what it means to love each other.  I think when Christian talk of anything other than the love of Christ, they have missed the mark.  This particularly applies to discussions about evolution and creationism.  When we argue over these small issues, we forget the important issue, which is loving each other.  Christ never spoke of evolution or creationism.   Creationism springs from a literal reading of the Bible.  Any interpretive reading allows evolution to be the process of all change and the method whereby God created all we see.  To me, God is far more impressive, to have been able to set into process a set of rules that go back forever, but lead to what we see today.  God would be much less impressive, if he just "zapped" everything into existence, apparently without the foresight to get it "right" all the way back to infinity.  

 

 

"I just don't agree that there is any difference between micro evolution and macro evolution.  They both take place by the same process.  It's just that after evolution has continued on a planet and built up complex system, then things can change rapidly once the environment changes.  To me, you have made a false assumption that the two are somehow different."

I am glad that you responded and I appreciate the fact that you have taken time away from an obviously busy schedule to speak with me.  I understand that you do not agree.  I appreciate your thoughts, however, the two cannot "take place by the same process" as you have said.  Indeed, you wrote in your article that the "mechanism" of Darwinism was a current controversy.  How then can you claim, with such certainty, that the two--evolution (micro) and Darwinism (macro)--take place by the same process?  What process is that?

The process is one of DNA expressing itself on any given planet.  I have in my possession a meteorite that landed on my great aunt's ranch about 30 years ago.  I think the objective evidence (www.marslife.com) shows that this rock came from Mars and that life has evolved on Mars, at least to the stage of insects.  None of the insects that I have found, have apparent eyes, and most have no "facial" features at all. This leads me to believe that they are basically primitive creatures and never had a chance to evolve with all the energy and water of planet Earth.  Mars is a smaller planet that is further from the sun than our Earth.  Therefore, it had less energy to work with and has lived its "life" and now is in its dying phase.  Life has hung one on Mars and adapted to the very dry and harsh conditions.  Since the sun looks only like a big star from Mars, it is possible that there never was enough light getting to the surface of Mars, so eyes were never developed.  Using DNA and models of evolution, it is possible to understand the possibilities that might have led to the life I have found in the Frass Meteorite.  Using creationism, we can gain no further understanding.   Is Mars only 6,000 years old?  I have done potassium argon dating and found that the Frass Meteorite was created in two different lava flows that occurred 36 million years apart, at the same location on the same volcano, and always on the surface.   How could these ages exist, if the entire cosmos is only 6,000 years old, or even if it is 13,000,000,000, as the scientists now say?  Creationism has no predictive value.  It only is one way of looking at a single problem of nature.  Evolution and the truth of DNA provide a much more reasonable explanation of how life could be found on more than one world.

Your use of "change" in your response is interesting.  What do you mean by "change?"  If you mean merely the process of sexual recombination and natural selection, then I would agree.  If you mean speciation, then again, I might agree.  But, if you mean the change theorized by Darwinism, then I cannot.  And, if you do mean this type of "change," then you are simply asserting the truth of an idea that is highly controversial and that would be to beg the question.

And change in any creature from one generation to another, is the result of DNA and evolution.  You are much more open than most creationist that I have talked to.  You admit the reality of the small changes, yet only challenge the large changes we see.  Is it the changes in species that bother you, or the possibility that God created you through a process other than a supernatural approach.  There are many different processes that lead to the change in species, including radiation, gravitational waves, interspecies mating, and probably many that we haven't yet come to understand.  But because we don't understand ever little detail, doesn't mean that the overall rules aren't working.  It just means that we don't yet understand.

I don't know if you have heard of Zig Zigler.  I have studied much of what he said, and a friend of his once told a story about bumble bees.  In those days, science didn't know how bumble bees could fly, since their wings were not large enough to support their bodies, by all scientific accounts.  The story was about each of us "bee-ing" all the we could "bee."  The story went, that the bumble bee didn't know he couldn't fly, so he just flew.  To complete the story, science later determined that bumble bees get lift on both their down and up stroke, thus their wings only need to be half the size of something that only gets lift on one stroke.  The moral of the story, is that science was not wrong.  It only had an inadequate model of the bee. Once science progressed, reality and science eventually met.  It is still important to teach every child that the cosmos is infinite, and that there are no limits on what they can "bee" except those limits that they (or others) impose upon themselves.  That seems much better than telling them they come from a finite cosmos that has limits and therefore imposes those limits on us.

Natural selection acts as an inhibitor.  Sexual recombination does not create anything new and mutation is extremely rare and almost 100% harmful.  Indeed, an imanent scientist who one the Nobel Prize for his work on mutations (I'll have to get his name for you later) said that so few mutations are found to be advantageous to the survival of the organism that we can safely consider them all bad.

I agree that mutation is usually harmful, but I don't agree with the 100%.  Science has long misunderstood the difference between possibility and probability.  Just because something is improbable, doesn't mean it can't happen.  I have defined a miracle as infinite possibilities overcoming the finite probabilities.  Most mutations do lead to the death of the individual before it reproduces.  But in an infinite cosmos with infinite possibilities, every once in a great while, these changes are effective.  Life is always trying every possible combination, because in the end, we never know what might be the most effective route to continued existence. In some ways, I am a perfect example.  I am not "normal" and represent in some ways, extreme variation within the human species.   Yet the savior of any species, I believe, is diversity.  As members of a species attempt to fill every niche, some are bound to discover a niche that is more survival able, when calamities arise.  I don't care how many Novel Prize's someone might have.  If they make the claim that no mutation is beneficial, then I think they are wrong and just don't understand nature.  I look for the truth myself in all that I do, and I never even look at a person's name when I'm trying to find the truth.  I look at what they say and not how many abbreviations they can put after their name.   Natural selection does act as an inhibitor, from some viewpoints.  From other viewpoints, it acts to fill every niche possible with every life that can figure out how to make a living in that situation.

Nevertheless, I have not simply "assumed" that the two processes are different.  They are obviously different, as is evidenced by the fact that they are separated by two different terms.  Some refer to them as micro and macro, others as evolution and Darwinism.  I believe that latter are the more prevalent.  In any case, microevolution involves tiny changes, usually within species, sometimes from one species to another (depending on how you define a "new species.")

Macroevolution, on the other hand, involves very large changes (genus, family, class--from amoebas to man) over long periods of time (millions of years).  It is incumbent upon the evolutionist to demonstrate that evolution leads to Darwinism.  This has yet to be done.  You see, I have not merely forced a demarcation between two processes which are really one process in various stages...

They are considered two processes even by evolutionists.  Indeed, I have merely pointed to their differences and asked the evolutionist to prove that the two are connected, that microevolution leads to macroevolution.  In that case, it is you who have assumed that the two are the same and that without any support. 

Just because evolutionist use two different terms doesn't mean that I agree with them.  I think they are both one and the same process and my search for the truth doesn't have to involve the models presented by others.  Again, I see all of the large changes we have gone through demonstrated in our own embryology, the direct expression of our DNA.  Our own bodies show these changes and how they came about.  We have webbing between our fingers, that probably comes from a stage in our evolution, when we were partly water creatures.   Apparently, in our past, a time came when we lived in a warm, predator free, land locked, ocean.  This is when he developed upright walk, larger brains, face to face sex, the woman's period, and many other of the features that separate us from the other apes on this planet.  Being connected to other species, makes me feel more apart of God's world, rather than less.

If the two were actually the same, as you say, then there would be no confusion over the mechanism for "macroevolution."  It would be fairly obvious that the mechanisms for macro would be the same as those for micro.  But, because the two are different, macroevolution must have a feasible explanation that does not involve merely pointing to "microevolotion."  The two are different not only in their scope but in their complexity.  There is quite a bit of evidence for microevolution but no conclusive evidence for macro.

In that case, you cannot merely point to evidence for microevolution as if it supported Darwinism.  If Darwinism is true, then evidence should be quite prevalent.

I have not falsely assumed that the two are different.  I have simply followed the lead of evolutionist practice.  The two processes (and they are two, not one) are not considered to be ontologically equivalent by any means.  One may "lead to the other," that remains to be seen, but the two are not equivalent.

Again, I appreciate you time.  I know how restricted a full schedule can become.  I thank you for your determined efforts to discuss your views and I hope that we can continue what has been, so far, a fruitful correspondence.

I agree that you have not made these assumptions, but only following the path set by others.  As you must know by now, I walk my own path and allow others to walk any path they see as appropriate for themselves.  One of the things that I have learned, is that love is hardest when it comes to those of us that are different.  Each of us, whether we believe in God or not, usually show love to our friends and those that are similar to ourselves.  The hardest part is learning to love those that are different from ourselves.  Sometimes, it seems to me, that the fundamental Christians are the least likely to love those that are different.  Many times, they even say that everyone that doesn't believe in God in the same way that they do, is evil.  I believe that a spiritual life can be led in many ways and should never be limited by the beliefs of others.

 

 

Again, I thank you for taking the time to respond to my queries...  I would also like to say, concerning your reply on evolution, that I understand why you do not feel that you should rewrite your paper.  However, I appreciate the fact that you will post my response to it.  That is very fair.  Thank you.

Now, I would like to address your comments on my other letter "One More Thing..."

You responded by saying that "You will have to wait for my book, "The evolution of the biologic computer" to understand how gravions are used to store information. Suffice it to say, your own brain is using these very gravions to define models of the realities that exist outside of your mind."

In that case, would you consider my brain to be a system which uses gravions to store information about reality?  If so, then this would correspond to your definition of "life."  Is my brain a single component, one of many, of many thousands of components which make up the concept "life"?  I think you will have a difficult time defending such a notion.

Your brain is a system that is using gravions to store information about the reality around you.  However, your brain is only one part of the complete system.  Your brain generates the gravions of your thought, but it is supported by all the systems of your body.  The mass, the energy, the gravity of your whole being is necessary to generate your thoughts.   But there is information stored in every system of your body.  Your DNA is transporting information, every cell must have a controlling unit, and even the mitochondria in every cell, must have a control units, which I believe involves the connections of gravity as the mechanism.  The life energy moves throughout the entire system.  The life is not regulated to just the brain, but the entire network of gravionic connections that make up your being.

Life does not constitute a conglomeration of all the "information storing systems" in existence.  Life is certainly required in order for these systems to store any information at all, but it is not equivalent to those systems.  I think that, although this definition may be convenient, it is not sufficient.  It will not do. 

I will let future history judge the value of my definition.

You will, by virtue of a convenient definition, have eliminated the problem of the rising of "life" from non-living matter by merely making life a kind of physical substance, which it is not.  Life is possessed by the organism or the cell, etc., but it is not a mere capacity of certain organs to store information.  Indeed, at the moment, I believe, it is controversial whether or not viruses can, in fact, be considered to be "alive" although they certainly store information.  This demonstrates that "life" is not what you have made it out to be.

I have eliminated the problem of life arising from non-living matter, by proposing the infinite cosmos model.  As I have stated earlier, in an infinite cosmos, life never has to arise from non-living matter.  In an infinite cosmos, life was always somewhere and it merely needs to travel to fill every corner of an infinite cosmos.  Viruses would be considered alive under the gravionic model.

Furthermore, your exclusion of the supernatural from the "real" is question begging.  Although, again, it may be convenient to your system to discard the notion of the supernatural by merely ignoring it altogether, this calls into question the integrity of your work.  This is a logical blunder.  Perhaps your work will not suffer in the eyes of those materialists who already agree with you, but that is of subjective importance.

I don't exclude the supernatural from the "real."   I include it.  I will not be restrained by the concepts of the past.  Old models of reality have seen things from narrow viewpoints.  I have strived to see everything from a broad viewpoint, that encompasses all that is real.

Your statement that "If God is real, then He must be a part of nature" demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the nature of GOD.   GOD cannot be a "part of nature" unless you are speaking of pantheism and to make Him equivalent to nature is to merely call the universe by another name, making the concept of "God" altogether meaningless.  If you wish to discuss pantheism, you may do so, but it is absurd to try and exclude all other possibilities from the outset.

One thing mankind likes to do, is to make names for his models of everything.  I have not made God equivalent to nature, I have merely made Him a part of nature.  How can God be "one" with nature without being a part of nature.  Or maybe a better way to look at it, is He is all of nature.  I believe my model includes all religions and how they look at nature.  I just place more emphasis on being spiritual rather than religious.  All possibilities are included, not excluded.

I understand that you would probably rather that I wait until the publication of your book, but I would greatly appreciate some kind of explanation as to how you managed to refute all notions of GOD except the pantheist One.  If you are simply claiming that GOD cannot exist because he contradicts the gravion model then I feel the need to point out that you have yet to demonstrate that the "gravion model" is equivalent to "reality"--and I am not speaking of "reality" as conveniently defined according to the gravion model.  That would be absurd.

What I mean to say is, you have yet to demonstrate that the gravioin model corresponds to what exists, to what truly IS.

I will leave it to all those that follow to determine if the gravionic model truly models all that exists.  I have just proposed the model as a new model of science, because I believe it is better than the current models used in science.  All of science has been about the process of making new models, when the old ones no longer work properly.  I don't say that God can't exist.  I make the existence of God a founding principle. 

I think that the most difficult aspect of your theories, from what little of them that I understand so far, is that it appears to be entirely deterministic (our minds being "biological computers").  If that is so, then your theories do indeed exclude the possibility of GOD but you might as well point out that they also exclude the possibility of the creative process in man.  All knowledge becomes determined, including the knowledge which you have poured out in your book.

The gravionic model actually resolves the problem of determinism.   It shows that all real events take place in a two stage process.  First the connections of gravity occur, and then the energies flow.  Before the connections of gravity occur, the "world" is indeterminate and free will exists.  Once the connections of gravity have been made, the system is determinate and will exchange energies until equilibrium is accomplished.  All of science to this date, has studied reactions and physical events after the connections of gravity have been made.  That is why science tends to be so deterministic.  The gravionic model allows and in fact cherishes the creative process in man.  The thing I love most in life is the creative process.  How could you look at my work and think I could exclude the creative process in man.  The creative process has driven every bit of my work and is a very basic part of the differences that make me me.

If your own theory is determined, what reason do we have to trust its validity?  For example, if GOD doesn't exist at all, then the theistic belief must have sprung up for biological reasons concerning natural selection.  But, if the theists ideas concerning the existence of GOD are determined, then so are yours and so are mine.  I think that it would be quite arbitrary for you to conclude that ONLY the notions of theists concerning the existence of GOD are determined but your are not.

If you understand what I have been saying, then you will realize that I don't think any events are determined.  The death of my son has really led me to understand how important our own actions are, in the outcome of the world.  I think God has given us the chance to change the world.  This means we have free will.   The gravionic model supports this concept.

And, of course, if all ideas concerning the existence of GOD are determined by natural selection or some other antecedent cause, how can you escape what would appear to be the inevitable conclusion that all beliefs and all ideas and all thoughts are determined as well...

I think you understand my point.  Your theory, if my descriptions are correct, would have taken into consideration what is being observed while forgetting the presence of the mind of the observer.  All deterministic notions fall to this fact.  They are self-refuting.

Again, I thank you for your time and efforts in reading and responding to my comments.  Feel free to write back and explain a thing or two concerning your ideas.

I hope you are doing well, sir.

If God is to have a place to work in our lives, then surely the connections of gravity that make up our minds, would be the place that He could use the least energy to change the world the most.  A single human being can change the course of the world, and to do this, it must start with his thoughts.  Thoughts are then put into action and the world is forever changed.

 

 

 

Dear micromike,

I am sorry, but I had not read your second letter to me before asking about the first. I would like to thank you for sharing a part of yourself and, again, I encourage you to continue to offer up your own thoughts on the public scaffold for discussion. I also know that it can be difficult. There is a great deal that you have said in your latest letters to me and they were profoundly moving. I read your short autobiographical article which mentioned your only son and I am deeply sorry that he is no longer with you.

I will not presume to tell you how to grieve, sir, but if you need more time than a couple of weeks to continue this correspondence, then please take it. If not, if you desire to continue your work and to keep the memory of your son before you as you continue to give to the world, then I will also continue to offer you whatever I can.

I am very pleased that you are willing to post the arguments that I have offered. I laugh as I consider the thoroughly informal replies that I gave. Had I known that you would be so fair in your presentation, I would probably have marshalled more evidence, provided quotes and sources, etc. I can only hope that the audience understands that more than my simple opinion is at stake.

Thank you for your kindness.  Even though we disagree, we each care for the other and that is why I think this conversation is so important. 

Concerning creationists, yes, there are different schools of thought. Some believe in an "old-earth" model, some in a "young-earth" model, some do not know exactly what Scripture teaches and they hurt themselves by tying their beliefs in knots unnecessarily. Some of them seem to have a particular aversion to any knot but the Gordian version.

At any rate, evolutionists also have their particular schools of thought. I'm sure you are familiar with Punctuated Equilibrium, Darwinism and Neo-Darwinism, Lamarkianism and many others that are of smaller consequence...

Of course, this is nothing which should surprise us. If the truth does exist, then there will be many who are ignorant of it or who have taken a disliking to it and will cling to cherished theories in the face of facts. I am glad that you decided to begin your search as objectively as you could, attempting to remain unbiased in your search for the truth... However, I am not so sure that it is as easy as you have described to relinquish one's presuppositions in search for answers. Indeed, it would seem impossible considering that many of the presuppositions we hold are subconscious. Presuppositions act as a grid which filters everything that we learn or sense. A person's presuppositions will dictate what that individual even considers "possible."

A naturalist believes Christian claims to be "extraordinary" (especially miracles) and describes them as such because, based upon his metaphysical presuppositions, they are exactly that. For me, the naturalists' beliefs are "extraordinary."  The only way that you could have been completely unbiased in your approach is to have based all your knowledge upon apodictic certainty. So far, no one has been able to do that. Indeed, I think you would find the struggle to refute solipsism with apodictic certainty to be rather difficult. Schopenhaeur said that solipsism needs, not a refutation, but a cure. I, for one, agree but, nonetheless, no one has been generous enough to provide one.

My point is that your presuppositions will determine, to a large degree, how you interpret evidence. And, because you cannot conduct every experiment yourself, you will also have to rely upon the reporting of results and the drawing of inferences by other men, all of whom have inferred their picture of the truth from their unquestioned presuppositions. It is not so easy to be objective as all that. You have and you must rely, at least in part, on the authority of others. What then?

As for me, I cannot see how that you could have refuted the notion that the GOD of every religion is false, something you would have to do in order to support many of the claims that you have thus far made. Excuse my assumptions, but it seems, from the context of your letters, that you do not agree with any organized religious stance. In that case, I invite you to speak with me about the GOD of Christianity (of Scripture). It is an open invitation, to be accepted or denied at any time.

When concerning evolution, you stated that, "What your argument says to me, is that you don't understand how macro could occur. I would just tell you to realize that nature's imagination is not as limited as mankind's."

I agree. But my position is not that I cannot envision the process of macroevolution but that no conclusive evidence has been rendered in defense of it and I, personally, see many problems with it which remain unresolved. It is more of a lack of support than a lack of imagination which forces me to deny its validity.

Indeed, I must admit my surprise when I read that you "can see the entire process and now see no conflicts." You had earlier written that evolutionists have yet to find the mechanism which can move macroevolution forward, although the mechanism required for microevolution has been known for some time. In fact, I recently wrote a paper (informal) with a section concerning the inability of evolutionists to describe the process of macroevolution because of gaps in the fossil record, ignorance concerning the evolution of organs like the eye and the lung and structures like the wing, inability to explain "living fossils" and animals which defy what is usually expected of natural selection's keen eye for disadvantageous structures (like the peacock's tail). If even the best evolutionists cannot "see the entire process," but, instead, are forced to spread conjecture on the subject, I have to wonder how you were capable of this.

I am sure that you have your reasons for having said this and so I will simply allow you to respond. However, I too wish that we had several days to discuss these matters, face-to-face. It would be a pleasure.  Because we have so little time, perhaps we should move away from peripheral details and strike at the heart of the problem.  Is macroevolution even possible, based upon what we know and upon logical scrutiny?

I would be very interested to hear more about your ideas concerning our DNA and why you believe that, as you said, "the absolute proof" of your contentions lies there. Are you referring to the similarities between chimpanzee and human DNA or to the recent explorations of the human genome? If so, I can refer you to an article which demonstrates that such "evidence," when viewed reasonably, is really more advantageous to the creationist, contrary to the evolutionist claim.

Thank you for all your efforts and I look forward to a fruitful correspondence. I will accept your invitation and try my hand at reading your work. My efforts will have to come slowly at first, for I keep myself very busy.

I will write again very soon and I would like to discuss, on a broader base, the conclusion that the minister came to whom you spoke with when younger--that perhaps religion and science are searching for the same truth but in different ways. I would also like to ask a few questions concerning remarks you made in your autobiographical article.

Take care... You have my warmest regards.

Oh, yes... "Philonous" was a character in George Berkeley's book, "Three Dialogues Between Hylas and Philonous..." I believe it means, "lover of the Mind."  My use of it is not so pretentious as it might at first appear.


 

 

Copyright 1998,1999, 2000, 2001

  The philosophy of space and time at micromike.com

All rights reserved worldwide.

A license to use pictures and text can be purchased for a nominal fee at: thegravitystore

 Contents  Philosophy Papers  Principles Summary  Cosmology  Letters Menu  Personal Information Menu  Martian Chronicle   MarsLife  MarsMeteorite  MarsRock  LogSpaceShip  GravionCentral  Micromike's sites Overview  Common Links  Home  Aaron's Memorial Pages   

cosmology of micromike

NASA contact page

Questions or comments? contacts: Aaron@micromike.com web pages mike@micromike.com. content